Wednesday, September 30, 2015

Entitlement and the Brick Wall

As may be no surprise to readers, I'm a big fan of trying to improve myself through my life.  In the same way RPG players try to amass new skills, abilities, and assets to take on the big boss, I believe you should constantly assemble more tools to help you thrive as an individual.  Now, that "thriving" can mean different things to each individual, and the skills and situations you pursue are different from person to person.

What matters isn't that you seek a specific goal, of course, but rather that you regularly test yourself and throw yourself into the fire to be tempered by it.  To me, everyone is born in a state of uselessness, and you harden and improve yourself through your experiences.  It's not possible to "corrupt" or "ruin" yourself, and "purity" is synonymous with "untested" and "unimproved".

So, as one can imagine, in Eve, I genuinely look at losses and hardship as the very point of the game.  Let the simple level-grinding, pushing buttons to earn candy, and going through a process to achieve a desired result rest with single-player games.  Eve, at its core, to me is a live test environment, where the entire point is to implement your success strategies in an environment of friction, chaos, setbacks, and unpredictability.  Eve is the chaos and the resistance pushing against your desires, and within that tension lies all of the satisfaction when you finally overcome and succeed despite all the forces arrayed against you.

I desperately value this element in Eve specifically because the rest of the world seems to be sliding more and more towards a sense of entitlement.  Getting a college degree entitles you to a good job, or even A job, right?  And if you don't earn six figures, why we better sue to have our money returned or our student loan debt forgiven.  Never mind that your degree was in theoretical extraterrestrial sociology...

Or, when you forget to cancel your account by the start of the next billing cycle, you're entitled to have the charge pro-rated, right?  Or you're entitled to not being offended... ever.  Or you're entitled to play an online interactive game exactly the way you want without anyone interfering with your own ego-maniacal Vision playing out before you.  These days, we deem ourselves as gods of our own lives.

I ran into one of these little Gods who decided to throw a tantrum last night, and he exemplified the quintessential bad habit of failed Eve players.

First, allow me to provide some context.  I was flying through Aunsou in a Svipul, having traveled a short distance looking for targets.  The probe launcher on T3Ds is a hell of a thing, and pretty much justifies the value of the class as a whole in my book.  No longer do I need to make a distinction between applying damage and probing, and T3Ds make a nice addition as heavy tackle in a post-fleetwarp era.  But, I digress.

I scanned down one target in a data site, but couldn't resolve a 100% lock on his ship, a Buzzard.  Switching to view only cosmic signatures, I saw I had gotten a full lock on the site he was in and warped to it instead, but I landed 70 km away from him.  As I saw the distance, I switched to propulsion mode, but still only reached around 50 km by the time he warped off to safety.  He had been aligned and, once he saw I was coming towards him, he extracted himself.  He didn't seem particularly surprised to see me, so he was obviously watching dscan and saw my probes.

Shrugging my shoulders and deciding I'd need to buy some scanning implants, I increased the range and did another scan.  Another ship, at another deep safe.  This time, though, he was in an Algos, and I could resolve a 100% scan, so I warped directly to him and switched to Sharpshooter mode to lock him quickly when I landed.  I got both his ship and his pod.  Note the limited extent of the loss.

Now, this wasn't an impressive kill... not really.  I moved on my merry way, until I saw this pop up in my notifications.

Perhaps more than it should, the sense of entitlement conveyed in this notification filled me with a furious rage.  He was going to quit the game as a de facto response, before he even spent a moment to consider if perhaps he could have done something to improve himself and fly better?  And, how DARE I have the audacity to kill him.  The game is terrible because he can die!

This is the real problem CCP faces in new player retention.  They've created a game that is a Nietzschean's dream - throwing yourself into the fire to come out stronger on the other side - amid a modern society steeped in participation trophies, children's sports that don't keep score, and the delusion that everyone is a unique little snowflake that deserves to be given their heart's desire simply because their parents had a few spare moments to kill one evening.

Allow me to pause and recover myself while that challenge sinks in.

Clearly, this player did not sufficiently understand the value proposition of Eve and the environment he was entering.  And that's a problem CCP needs to address better in its marketing and the information available to players within the game client itself (for instance, I don't know of an in-game resource to describe even something as critical as the way tracking speed and signature radius affects damage projection... a cornerstone of so much PvE and PvP activity).  But CCP also needs to be able to rely on a certain minimum coating on the bottom of the barrel of its players.

Things like, "If I suffer some misfortune, as a human being I will understand why it happened."  Or, "I want to improve at doing the things I spend my time doing."  Basic stuff that separates humans from cattle, for instance.

But, contrary to my frustration, I did not unload both barrels at the pilot.  Instead, I shared this response:

Carrot and stick, combined.

In the past, I've thrown a game down in disgust.  I did it with Deus Ex: Human Revolution at the first boss battle, because I didn't realize that I could shoot the barrels to damage the enemy.  My knowledge of the possibilities was limited, and I thought the game was broken/rigged.  When I learned differently, I went back to it and tried again.  It's now one of my favoriate games.

I don't believe in coddling people by sugarcoating the reality of a situation, but nor can I see a victim mentality and not offer some advice to help the sickness.  Whether this pilot decides to leave the game or not is up to him, and will speak to his character.  I've tried to address the knowledge barrier to show him how he can run data sites safely.  The ironic part is that if he'd have reached out to me asking how I found him and what he could do differently, I'd have reimbursed his full loss and started a conversation with him.

But I refuse to condone or coddle to a tantrum.  We have to control our urge to see loss as an immediate denial of gratification, but rather an opportunity to improve.

Eve is a lens into the hearts of players.  How we react to the game shows our character and our nature.  How we react reveals whether we have the skills to overcome challenges and stronger for them, or whether we're destined to forever be the victim complaining about how hard we've had it and how "the world" prevents us from achieving our goals.

Charles Swindoll was correct: "I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you...we are in charge of our attitudes."


  1. That was a good response - humans are emotional, irrational, and EVE is a bit of on outlier in the MMO world which he may not have been used to. If that sounds like I'm making excuses for him - maybe I am, but I like to understand the mindset of other people because that is the first step in teaching them. And this guy - he did talk to you, in a fashion. He could have just silently quit the game, but he didn't.

    And I'd never rule out that the possibility that a person a has very demanding real life, and simply does need even more of that via EVE in what is supposed to be their spare time. What sounds like a tantrum could be the simple realization that 'Yup, EVE is not the right game for me'. It takes class to realize things you simply can't do, admit those, and move on to things you can do.

    By the way, I'm a fan of not scoring children's sports: Because the important thing is get them to do sports in the first place, and enjoy it. Enjoy the exertion, enjoy that there are challenges you tackle for your own betterment, or just because it's fun to try, not to please other people. Children will develop a competitive mindset all on their own, latest by the time they turn into teens. Once that mindset develops, you can channel it, but there is no need to force it upon them prematurely. In the long run, enjoying doing sports for sports sake is healthier than doing sports in order to 'win'. Because the former you can do until you die, but the latter will stop once you're too old to be competitive.

    1. There are other activities that can accomplish those goals, though. And there are some sports that are more about personal achievement than winning. But a huge part of being young is learning how to face defeat and overcome it through hard work. That's how you build character.

    2. I agree with Tal here... whether or not you 'score' a ‘sport’ should be based on whether or not it is a competitive sport as most are. There are plenty of sports-like activities that are simply fun to do and don't need a score to be kept, but ‘sports’ are usually competitive in nature as man is competitive in nature and not keeping score is... well, quite simply illogical when engaged in a competition.

      Especially as the reason not to keep score is based on giving kids who are not good at sports a false sense of accomplishment rather than giving them a reason to try and do better and learn how to learn from adversity… which interestingly was sorta the basis of Tal’s post… =]

    3. Agreed with Dex on that one. There's nothing wrong with kids learning about winning and losing. They need to learn to harden up a bit, and realize you don't have to be the best at something to have fun at it. Case in point, I have always been AWFUL at basketball.

  2. PS. Even with the knowledge of the barrels, the boss fights in the original DX:HR remain a contention point for me. I finished the game, but the boss battles were simply out of character for the stealthy spy I was playing. In the end I cheesed them simply to get them over with. In comparison, it was way more fun trying to figure out how to save the helicopter pilot Faridah Malik. I /wanted/ to save that pilot, because I knew that I didn't need to in order for the game to progress, yet it would fit into how I played the game, whereas the boss battles were just a clicheed game play device

  3. There are a number of new player groups out there. You could perhaps add that they should try joining them first. Almost all of them usually put that player into a fleet and / or voice communications to help them get over the first 'bump' without undue fuss. And also usually guidance or SRP to show them it doesn't matter as much as simply being willing to undock does.

    1. I generally would. Brave was one of my go-tos, but given the trouble they've had...

  4. I agree with your main point here... but it is not entirely 'entitlement' that causes rage quitting. Most people do not play or enjoy EVE the way you, or even the way I for that matter, do.

    For many if not most gamers, gaming and playing games be they cards, tabletop games or online games, whether FPS's or MMO's, single or multiplayer... these are a break, an escape from the real world. A break from the stresses and disappointments of the daily RW grind of bosses, office politics, irate clients and customers and the bills and chores at home. Not saying everyone lives are a continual hell... but games are a break from the unpleasant stuff. Games are a place where he (or she) can be a Hero, be a Winner, where they can be Rich and Powerful and in control of their fate.

    These are the legions of themepark and FPS gamers who are our potential New Players, the pool of potential EVE Newbies... WoW has literally MILLIONS of players because in WOW Loss is NOT Real and NO ONE can take your stuff, no one can embarrass you, no one can hurt you.

    They don't play to challenge themselves against players who can take from them and embarrass them, they get enough of that in their day to day lives, they want to be the one's doing the taking and embarrassing... They don't care to learn the way tracking speed and signature radius affects damage projection... as a matter of fact that extreme level of detail in game mechanics is a major turn off for thousands of those potential players... and TBH that level of detail is not something even I give a crap about, and I'm a fanboy of CCP and a die hard EVE vet as you well know.

    The issue is most gamers are more like WoW players then like EVE players and quite simply don't want to play a game where loss IS real and they can lose... and lose big. Where they have to WORK and work hard and invest a huge amount of time and effort to get better so that they can hope to not lose as big and mebbe not as often.

    Now, does this mean I advocate for PVP free zones or a PVP Opt Out button?? Hell no... but if we want the game to stay the way it is, the way CCP envisioned and made it, then we quite simply have to accept that the way the game is greatly limits the number of possible players who will stick with it... I do wish I had an answer to this.

    We are a rare breed and a very weird bunch... we EVE players. In the words of the immortal toast...

    "Nobis et horum similes nobis, damn pauci!!"
    [To us and those like us, damn few left!!]

    1. Yeah, you're right. But I've never been sympathetic to people who come into someone else's house, then get upset that they have to abide by a different set of rules. I feel no sympathy for Latino immigrants who come to the United states, then wave the Mexican flag at rallies as they want to speak only Spanish and refuse to learn English. I feel no sympathy for people who come to a new job then constantly talk about how "they used to do it at my old job" as an attempt to change how things are done. That fits in Eve as well. I wouldn't go to Germany and demand that everyone speak English... that's why I haven't been to Germany... I don't speak German even a little. You've got to adapt to the environment you find yourself in, or find another game.

      On CCP's end, I think they need to do a good job of clarifying the characteristics of who their most-likely customers are and market to them, rather than blanketed efforts.

    2. Totally agree on the “Si fueris Rōmae, Rōmānō vīvitō mōre; si fueris alibī, vīvitō sicut ibi…” [If you should be in Rome, live in the Roman manner; if you should be elsewhere, live as they do there…] thing. But people are people and that is not how they act… and never has been.

      I found this, ”…people who come into someone else's house, then get upset that they have to abide by a different set of rules.” really interesting as one of the points of your post was how do we attract and retain new players… into ‘our’ house.

      What we need is a way to help them see the value in the adversity. That it is that very real risk that makes winning so much more valuable than ‘finding’ or being given a magical sword (or whatever) that can NEVER be lost, stolen or destroyed.

      On the “Focused Marketing” thing… I don’t agree so much.

      EVE is a niche MMO takes a different kinda player as I have said afore. And that player ‘type’ is not the standard run of the mill themepark PVE gamer. But, I believe we agree that for the health of CCP and the game growing the playerbase in multiple ways would simply be good for all, but how do we/CCP do that without changing EVE into WoW-in-Space?

      Focusing on just the 10% who like EVE right off the bat or decide to hang in there after the 1st 30 days is not the way to do it. We need to cater to a wider audience without ‘changing’ EVE’s basic open world PVP-centric emergent sandbox meta… so how?

      (1) Add new gameplay and new places to play in.
      CCP is already working on this with Valkyrie (and DUST though DUST is not nearly as integrated as what is needed) so yea, I’m talking about WiS. Be it the vision of ‘Legion’ or something else I feel it would benefit CCP (and us all) greatly by tapping into that huge FPS market that so far doesn’t find anything interesting in EVE. Plus new places to play, the Player Built Stargates and New Space is very much CCP heading in the right direction but they could open up New Spaces to play in all over New Eden with WiS and FPS styled Planetary Exploration.

      (2) Continue adding new and far more interesting PVE such as the Burner missions and most especially things like Drifters and improve communication with new players to point them towards new player friendly groups such as EVE Uni and Brave… IE give the hordes of std Themeparkers something really shiney to lure them in and help them find support to get them through the initial shock that Loss and Risk in EVE can be for someone used to having their Magical War Mount bound to their toon and Safe Forever.

      We need CCP to keep working to make EVE the most interesting MMO on the market but not ‘easier’ to play… To keep the faith with their original vision and keep EVE’s open world PVP-centric emergent sandbox full of good sand and amazing shovels and buckets.

    3. Good points, all around. I think a lot of the key is in proper product positioning.

  5. Good post. I wonder how he reacted to your reply? I had a similar thing the other day with one of my account alts. I thought I was moving an empty ship where in reality it had every single BPO and BPC (inc T2 BPCs) that I owned (bar 2). I lost my ship and I lost all my BPs and didn’t even realise till I investigated why I had been targeted.

    I remember looking at the screen and thinking “oh shit that was all my BPs” and I had the fleeting feeling of just docking up and walking away. but then I thought about it, sure some of those were expensive, some were cheap even though they were all researched to 10/20. But I consider it now an opportunity to start afresh (a lot of those BPs were unprofitable) and so I am starting again using the 2 BPs left over as a base.

    It is how you react to the knocks that are telling in this game, and in life too.

    1. That last bit is the key. Those who react well to Eve realize that there is no safety net, no one is going to save you, and you have to dust yourself off and carry on, no matter what. They have to have a healthy reaction to adversity, or they'd have flamed out for a while. It's a judge of your steel, in that sense.

    2. As someone that has lost years ago a POS and my assets to a group that destroyed it for no other reasons than they did not like something I had posted on a blog I was keeping at the time, I know what it feels like to be burned. I quit the game for a few months but I did come back eventually as this game offers this sense of struggle and difficulty that no other game can match, and I like internet spacehips.
      This game certainly tests reaction to adversity!
      Good article, and I hope your letter convinced this player to stick around.

  6. Every gamer should try EVE, even if they don't stick with it in the long run, because of the MMO game design rabbit hole that it takes you down. Players that get it, they come to understand that perma loss, risk/reward, non-consensual PvP, player-driven market, industry/combat economy balance, etc etc -- all these aspects of are interdependent and without any one of them it wouldn't be the game it is.

    The bit that is most interesting is when a player is capable of recognising this (sadly, not all people can even get that far), but refuses to acknowledge it out of stubborness, self delusion or just plain old butthurt.

    It's inconceivable to me why anyone would be willing to nerf their own gameplay fun by removing the challenge of danger from fellow players. Companies spend a lot of resources (and invariably fall short) on making good competitive and creative AIs -- EVE totally bypasses this problem from the outset by pitting real humans against humans.


  7. 1) Congratulations on destroying an Algos - yum

    2) Congratulations on generating some delicious tears - tasty

    3) Many thanks for trotting the cry baby out for public humiliation – wonderful

    4) Congratulations for casting the entire story as part of your real life ongoing quest towards becoming a better human being – “regularly test yourself and throw yourself into the fire to be tempered by it”

    Number 4 is impressive leap. From space pixel combat to real life “harden and improve yourself through your experiences” in one short blog post

    1. I'm totally sensing a bit of troll here, but that's cool. :) Ultimately, the choices we make define us. In some cases, video games serve as a window into our egos specifically because we aren't held to account for the choices we make. That allows us to act without opinion for public opinion. And that's quite insightful.

      Some people view the world in terms of the ideal state, with friction, delay, and lost potential as reducing the way the world "should" work. Other people view the world as formless clay, out of which we create and form meaning. The former are constant pessimists, the latter eternal optimists.

      Viewing everything as shit except that which you create and carve out is, from an individual perspective, far, far more useful, as you become the master of your own destiny. Ironically, accepting the darkness all around you lets you appreciate the lights that do exist.

      That's all a long way of saying that the ability to thrive and achieve in this world has more to do with taking punches than doling them out. The winner is he who endures and overcomes, not he who conquers and is "best" at something.

    2. Hehe I'm with AnonymousOctober 1, 2015 at 11:36 AM here.

      "But, contrary to my frustration, I did not unload both barrels at the pilot. Instead, I shared...." this blog post... ;-)

      I also think it is worthwhile to deliberately misinterpret your words and have a little troll of my own with regards to tying one's worth into trials by "fire" in a video game... post-ironic ;-)

      Always worth having a troll at someone that seems to have a thick enough skin to handle it.

      What I will grant you is this. If one wants to quit, quit - why the need for guilt/blame messages?

    3. Very rarely do we make decisions and change our behavior because of well-reasoned arguments. Most people respond better to public mockery than logic. It's sad, but true.

      The person who wilted like a Dixie cup likely won't even read this blog. But others will, and perhaps can take a lesson out of it that perhaps it isn't okay to just crumple at the first sign of resistance. Maybe that will relate to their Eve life, maybe to when they lose their first job, or don't get into the college they want.

      In all those cases, you can choose to view yourself as a victim and whine about it, or you can double-down your efforts to overcome the things that thwart you. One way is life-affirming and increases your happiness, confidence, and power. The other way leaves you a sheep to be victimized by the next force you come across.

      Is that too dramatic for a video game? The lessons we learn through fiction can have power in the real world when we apply them. I'd rather learn life lessons in a video game where the consequences aren't real than squander the opportunity and suffer for squandering the opportunity.

    4. Agreed if one wants to quit, then let them... but we really really don't need to be helping them make that decision... and some of us are.

      There are those in our playerbase who take great joy in forcing others to rage quit. And that is an evil I cannot stand.

      It is one thing to fight the good fight, for the excitement, to initiate non-consensual PVP in the manner and with the reasons that Tal, or I do... it is something else altogether to attack someone with the intent and desire just to make another person upset enough to leave the game.

      Those are the players I would be only to happy to see no longer in my sky...

    5. I'm curious in which camp you put my message to him.

    6. You were not LOLing evilly while gloating over his 'tears' and calling him sophomoric names...

      Your response was measured and all in all positive... but yes, positive in that particular tough-love kinda way we have in New Eden... that "HTFU my brother, pull yourself together and learn from it." kinda way... =]

      You are a Gewn and ebil nullseccer and suchlike...
      but you are a moral person and that's god enough for me.

  8. @Tal - I think we got your "point" the first time. Just think it is a bit of a stretch - to quote anom: "Number 4 is impressive leap. From space pixel combat to real life “harden and improve yourself through your experiences” in one short blog post"

    The rest was just poking fun at you - no real point I wanted to make there.

    @Turamarth Elrandir - agreed, it would be nice to retain more players and not drive them out. I wrote about that a week or so ago:

    1. Ahhhh.... a new blog, but are you a new blogger my friend? If so, welcome to the machine! If returning or simply rebranding... welcome back.

      Pulls up a chair and grab a Quafe n Ruum... we can always use another voice at the table.

      I will check out your blog and get back to you... =]

  9. Call it entitlement if you want, but people pay for EVE for the game that the marketing sells it at and often players don't get that. Whats CCP don't and never will tell you is that when you join the game you'll be at the mercy of veteran players who have nothing better to do than practically one-shot your ship. You might treat everything as a tool for personal improvement, but most people treat games, MMO or not, as entertainment.

    The thing is while people generally appreciate challenge in a game, what they don't deal well with is being made to feel utterly helpless, and EVE does that. A new player doesn't realize how much understanding the mechanics can change the landscape, so when a veteran player with a huge amount of experience, a better ship and better skills takes them down, they get the impression that it's futile. If you just put it down to "entitlement" and can't understand why a player might be put off by being insta-popped, that's your failing.

    Another good example of a game like this is Rust. A new player starts with a rock and a torch, and can spend several hours hitting trees and other rocks with the rock to gather up what they need to get started, only to be instantly killed by a fully kitted out veteran for no particular reason. They don't need the low end resources, and the newbie wasn't affecting them, they were just there. Now the newbie is back in a random place with a torch and a rock. On paper it seems like a great idea to make loss matter and make the game harsh, but in reality it's terrible for new player retention.

    How they can solve that in a game like EVE is an impossible question, but if you fly around blapping newbies for kicks, then you are part of the problem.

    1. I've heard this same sentiment from others, and I don't doubt that some people feel this way.

      Only, in this particular situation, that wasn't the case. The process of killing him was no different than the process of killing any other ship. All of the "skills" he lacked were human skills, born from experience or education. This wasn't a case where having more skillpoints could have saved him. He needed wisdom.

      Avoiding this loss was 100% within his power, given the right knowledge and "knowing what he didn't know". That's the trick, and something I think CCP needs to do a better job of... making that knowledge available itself, rather than relying on lore and player conversations to share it.

    2. Like I say though, a new player doesn't know how much their personal skill, how much an understanding of the mechanics can change a battle. You are OK with it because you know about these things. Sometimes I feel some of you people struggle to take a step back and understand what it's like if you don't know most of EVE's mechanics. Whether it's in his power to stop or not is irrelevant, the game makes newbies feel helpless, even if they aren't. You help with that by going after obvious newbies in the first place. Yes, part of the issue is that CCP need to make knowledge easier to acquire, but part of it is that people have no interest in challenging fights, so they will gun down obvious newbies then whine when they ragequit rather than trying to give them some pointers in the first instance.

    3. I have to swoop in here and point something out: "Only, in this particular situation, that wasn't the case."

      I think it is highly likely that it was the case.

      Auto was born on the 28th, so had only 50k starting sp. There is therefore one gigantic skill he could have that would've saved him : Warp Drive Operation.

      Yes, I am saying that he could've brought WCS. (Rixx is silently fuming, I'm sure...)

      Also, you're getting a little preachy with this :P.

      Rob K,

    4. Yeah, I do realize I am getting a bit preachy. This touches on a very sensitive subject with me, as I do feel society as a whole is far, far too soft these days. But I'm going to resist the urge to delve deeper in that! I appreciate the caution tape!

  10. There's an issue I feel you've lightly passed over, but should consider more fully.

    "If I suffer some misfortune, as a human being I will understand why it happened."

    I'm going to ask you a question or two.

    Why did you kill the ship?

    Why did you kill the pod?

    Have you got my point yet?

    Honestly, I sympathise with him. He's taken the effort to come to a dangerous area of space, in search of rewards. His effort is wasted because the data analyser he bought doesn't even work on the site he's looked for! No doubt he's pretty irritated by this point.

    He walks away from the desk, after doing this new 'deep safe' thing he read about. He's safe, right?


    A player thousands of times older than him, and billions of times richer, somehow appears. He's scrammed, He can't warp, what the hell is going on?

    He explodes. What the fuck? How did he catch this escape pod thing. He doesn't understand. He is podded.

    He's angry, he's fuming. What's the point of this stupid game with these stupid mechanics. So he decides he's done.

    Well, not quite. He should tell that guy who killed him that he's quitting. That guy should know what he's done. (If you think this is "a tantrum", check out people who do this for this reason alone.)

    (Some liberties have been taken with the facts, because I wasn't there. I'm filling in from my experiences on both sides of the 'fight'. Also, was he in a Data site or not, you've written both?)

    Eve, no matter the people who insist otherwise, is about stories. The stories we tell ourselves, the stories we tell other.

    In this story, the 'hero' was destroyed, nay, obliterated by a villain who didn't even care to acknowledge them. He wasn't the Hero, he was a Mook. A brick wall before the Hulk. A stormtrooper before a Jedi.

    Would you play a game that made you lose again and again, for no reason, with no recourse?

    Sugar says it well: "I shall regret every moment, fail every task, and have no potential to ever succeed. Then I shall die to some horror movie villain and never a shaft of sunlight shall piece the clouds."

    This is how he feels.

    And then you sent him an email imply several things about his character. Did you think this would keep him playing?

    Rob K.

    P.S, any hope to change "a problem CCP needs to address better in its marketing" is doomed to failure, because you cannot sell Eve as it is. Mindless, arbitrary violence imposed by those with the power on those without is the fundamental truth of Eve.

    Want to 'sell' that? Good luck!

    1. Great commentary. He was at a site, actively running it; it's possible it was a relic site; I didn't get a clear read on which... I felt I needed to act fast and focused on the kill. He could very well have been running it.

      I do want to answer your P.S. question. I do know what Eve is, and I do "buy" it every month. I disagree with an interpretation of Eve as mindless violence, but that's because we view things quite differently.