Tuesday, June 16, 2015

Trying to Be Positive

So, I’m pretty seriously against the new fleet warp changes.  And while I don’t like them, my friend Turamarth is a big proponent of, “Don’t just complain, offer solutions!”  So here are two solutions.

To refresh everyone, CCP said that their goal with the fleet warp changes was to more deeply tie fleet success to the individual actions of all the fleet’s pilots.  In particular, their goal is to limit the effectiveness of bomber fleets.  Well, the proposal Fozzie shared is pretty much guaranteed NOT to accomplish that.  And I question whether that’s even a good idea.

But for the sake of argument, let’s assume the validity of that premise: our goal is to better entwine fleet success to the actions of individual pilots, and that changing fleet warp is the way to do it.  How should we do it to be successful?

Option #1: Broadcasted Warp Targets, Which Each Member Must Warp To

This is a two-fold change.  First, instead of FCs being able to warp the entire fleet to any current destination, including bookmarks, and scanner probe results.  When you join a fleet after a cyno is active, the cyno pilot must re-broadcast that cyno for you to be able to warp to it.  A similar mechanic would be applied in this situation; the prober would need to broadcast the scan result for anyone to be able to warp to it.  The prober would also no longer be able to warp others to the result.

The second half of this change is how the pilots reach the destination; they would each need to warp themselves to the broadcast, similar to how capital pilots must jump to beacons individually.  If a pilot messes up, they end up in the wrong place.  Those pilots need to be on the ball to stay with the fleet, and the attention level of individual pilots will affect their success.

This suggestion achieves both of CCP’s goals… eliminating fleet warp while also demanding more attention on the part of the individual pilots.  Each pilot would be more responsible for the success of the fleet than they are now, and coordination of many individuals, rather than a handful, would be the result.

Option #2: Squad Warp Only

One of the legitimate concerns about the proposed changes is that Eve is a game, and a good number of players aren’t interested in doing ::work:: to enjoy playing.  Large fleet battles, then, are a way for the casual gamer to play without feeling they’re at a huge disadvantage compared to hardcore PvPers.

CCP has stated in the past that the 6-week release cycle allows them to use baby steps instead of huge leaps.  So, why not start by limiting mass warping to squads, rather than fleets?  That way, up to 25 people would need to be paying attention to the FC’s warp commands, whereas now only the FC needs to be aware.  This additional level of coordination and command will balance the issues of fleet command logistics with spreading the vestment within fleets, yet do so in a way that inches the goalpost forward a bit at a time.

In this way, you still introduce room for error – and those errors would result in 10 fewer players reaching the destination.  It also gives CCP and the players time to adapt and assess whether this sort of change is viable in the long term.  Also, this sort of change will avoid the problems with multi-alliance fleets not being able to set bookmarks for each other (and, let’s face it, multi-corporation fleets).


Baby steps are the way to go here.  The simple fact is that CCP’s stated aim do not correlate to the proposed changes in any way.  It’s as if the building is on fire, and CCP is reaching for a vat of yogurt.

Only, the building isn’t on fire, because fleet warp has never been a problem for anyone outside of Reykjavik.  How is it that this is changing when <insert any of a dozen major issues> hasn’t been done yet?


  1. I wouldn't have an issue with the warp changes if there was a practical way to share bookmarks. Give us ways to link and share bookmarks outside of corp members without having to copy physical items. We should be able to drag and drop bookmarks into chat and copy from there.

  2. Both of these seem like sensible options, I personally would go for option 1.

    This makes sense to me from a lore/practical point of view (secure comms channels within a fleet allowing you to broadcast a location etc) and usability/game point of view.

  3. I'm a wormholer, and a small-gang pilot (~6 pilots are our usual fleet sizes, range is +/- 2). I've been against the changes from the beginning because it impacts small gangs so much more than it does large groups.

    I understand what it is CCP want to do and why, and I like the consideration of possibly keeping Squad Warps, but the more I've thought about it since it was first mentioned in the Thread on the forums, the more I like the idea of broadcast warps.

    In addition to what CCP want, it would also provide a benefit to smaller gangs and more organized gangs. In large groups or disorganized groups, you can quickly end up with a fair amount of broadcast spam, so it's very possible that a warp broadcast will be missed.

    I think the warpable broadcasts would provide the most ideal solution in terms of my own corp's gameplay.

  4. I take it this change means CCP is no longer considering fleet formations.

  5. Being brief, I suspect that the 'baby steps' approach was considered and discarded because of how much work it would've taken. Lots of CCP's code is probably impenetrable, and something as fundamental as the Fleet interface isn't something you want to muck around with.

    CCP has a cost/benefit analysis. Baby steps cost to much, or so I think.

    Rob K.

  6. Again, I come back to Tal's last paragraph.

    No one has yet given me a sufficiently good answer as to why fleet warp is all of a sudden such a huge issue.

  7. Fleet warping isn't the problem - combat scanning is. Address the problem.

  8. "Fleet Warp" could be added as a hull bonus on Command Ships, this gives risk versus reward: put your FC in a command ship on grid and you get fleet warp to bookmarks, park it off grid with an alt and you get warp to publicly available celestials.

  9. What if we just reduced maximum fleet size to a single wing, or even just to individual squads of ten?

  10. In the wh sounboard it is clear squad warp is out and the other thing is at least 6months away.