tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post2019543450877657510..comments2024-02-25T23:01:07.257-05:00Comments on Target Caller: Reasoning With UnreasonTalvorian Dexhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-85650492579291271972015-04-06T14:25:34.366-04:002015-04-06T14:25:34.366-04:00Yeah, it suits me. And that's the key. No co...Yeah, it suits me. And that's the key. No corp can be everything to everyone. Once you find out what you like, don't settle for a corp that is something else. There are so many options out there.<br /><br />I'd start with timezone, then age of players, then most important single activity. That last bit is key: what do they choose to talk about FIRST? I've seen too many, "We tat, mine, and PvP..." corps out there that try to be everything, yet succeed at nothing.Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-75586148279493048692015-04-04T04:36:33.078-04:002015-04-04T04:36:33.078-04:00...Which is why I've applied to EVE University......Which is why I've applied to EVE University so that I can get some PvP training and support from folks who hopefully have a much better idea of how to fight and play than I do :) I don't expect everyone in EVE to get along and like one another - but I would expect at least a degree of civility and mutual respect - something which - as I stated in my first post - USED to exist in this game but these days seems to be sadly lacking. It sounds like you are in a good place in the game Tal and can take care of yourself and have people you can rely on around you - I'm quite envious of that :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-33862568634610038442015-04-03T22:06:48.102-04:002015-04-03T22:06:48.102-04:00I wouldn't let a single person sour your opini...I wouldn't let a single person sour your opinion about the game. I've surrounded myself by players who like to kill other people, but who respect the players they kill, realizing that they are actual people with feelings and who deserve respect.<br /><br />Eve is more than one person, one corp, one alliance, one coalition, or one whole area of space or type of activity. Eve is who you surround yourself with.Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-17960117257783260042015-04-03T17:43:10.269-04:002015-04-03T17:43:10.269-04:00One final issue - was talking in one of the anti-g...One final issue - was talking in one of the anti-ganking channels tonight, where I made the same comment I did above about CODE and MiniLuv being seal-clubbers - within 30 seconds (I kid you not) of making it I had a GoonWaffe recruitment officer contact me via private chat (I had no idea who he was at the time or I wouldn't have accepted the invite) and confront me over it in a way that I took as deliberately threatening - with the implication "GoonWaffe will be coming for you". He then added me as a contact with Terrible standing and shut the chat down. Now ok - that's just words and I doubt very much that GoonWaffe, as a group, would be so petty as to go after individual players over a single comment in chat - but it's the ATTITUDE and BEHAVIOUR that we've been discussing that far from helping the game is hurting it. My sub is up at the end of the month - and you know what? After being out of the game for a few years and just coming back to dip my toe in it again, so to speak, I've got a good mind to let it lapse and not renew - I log on to enjoy myself and relax, NOT to get some wind-up merchant threaten me with punitive action because I expressed an opinion...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-76322680572997957842015-04-01T17:54:45.577-04:002015-04-01T17:54:45.577-04:00I'm a couple days late, but I'd like to ec...I'm a couple days late, but I'd like to echo Heretic Caldari here. I have people state, quite unambiguously, that PvEers shouldn't get nice things because their purpose is to be targets for roaming PvPers and therefore they shouldn't be allowed to make trade-offs between efficiency and safety. (The context was the Higgs anchor which, when fit on a mining barge, allows it to be almost stationary while being fully aligned.) "People doing PvE are stupid and should be shot (except for me I'm different)" is a sentiment I run into not infrequently.Ranamarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-22412893489745655932015-03-31T11:12:20.719-04:002015-03-31T11:12:20.719-04:00I suspect that would be a more engaging and reward...I suspect that would be a more engaging and rewarding experience providing a greater sense of accomplishment than the current mechanics, as well.Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-9369515826648604872015-03-31T10:51:34.946-04:002015-03-31T10:51:34.946-04:00Exactly Tal - on the one hand, CCP don't want ...Exactly Tal - on the one hand, CCP don't want to be alientating a large and very vocal part of their community (the PvE'ers) but at the same time they need to cater to the PvP crowd as well - it's a hard balancing act. As you've pointed out, the 'watering holes' here are certain systems/gates in the game - Uedama, Madimilire etc spring to mind. Not a lot you can do about that. But yes, CCP could at least randomise the locations of missions or their warp-in points to make it harder for folks to gank mission-runners... Nice idea there :) At the very least the gankers would need to scan down players, rather than just sit at one point waiting for some unsuspecting player to warp in. Again, I'm not anti-PvP - it's fun WHEN it's mutual or at the very least expected - I just wish there was a way to ease newer players, or those interested in dipping their toe in the 'PvP Pool' into it - a way of doing it that doesn't leave a bad taste in the mouth afterwards. To take one of your points about adaptive AI - maybe in hisec you could have small groups of roving AI gangs - say 1-3 ships. And I mean something with a bit more intelligence than the existing belt rats that basically just burn in straight at you pew-pewing only to get melted by your . Maybe the game logs your kills against these opponents so every time it throws some at you, the difficulty ramps up a bit - they employ better tactics, better equipement, better ships. You get trained by the game, while also benefitting from better drops as you improve - you are rewarded for fighting and improving your combat skills. As you wander down the sec ratings, the opponents get tougher - let's say at 1.0--0.7 you just see frigates, 0.6-0.3 cruisers and 0.2-0.0 battlecruisers. By this point they are not only fighting NPC AIs but also folks like you Tal - BUT they are ready for it and are used to 'PvP' (at least to some extent) - the game has eased them into what you might think of as 'the proper mindset' ;) They may still consider themselves PvE'ers - but they can defend themselves against actual players too - and BOTH camps benefit from this...They get the necessary 'training' while you guys meet opponents that can actually fight so you're not just taking part in the odd drive-by seal-clubbing...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-89069469238987794332015-03-31T08:31:54.636-04:002015-03-31T08:31:54.636-04:00You're definitely taking my comments in contex...You're definitely taking my comments in context, and these are all valid escalations of that thinking. I participate in ganking only during Burn Jita... because it's a big event with a large number of alliance mates on comms... it's much more social than PvP. And I stay away the rest of the time for the reasons you stated.<br /><br />While the risk isn't 0 - after all, everyone who participates loses his/her ship - but the risk of unexpected loss is nearly 0. But I have to ask... would these gankers exist if PvE wasn't so risk-free and predictable? If there was more risk in PvE (ie. adaptive AI tactics that can't be put in a wiki), mission runners would be less likely to fit the deadspace modules to min/max their efforts, which makes them a target by gankers. If the PvE agents moved around, or if you could comm an agent remotely, but be taken to any area within 20 jumps to start the mission, gankers couldn't gang up in lvl 4 or lvl 5 hubs and wait for targets.<br /><br />It's the very behavior and mechanics that mission runners use to maximize their output that puts them at risk. A mechanic change of this nature - making mission running less predictable, harder, and more dispersed - would make the job of gankers REALLY hard. Juicy, fat targets wouldn't be as common, and they wouldn't all cluster together like gazelles at a watering hole.<br /><br />Changes to reduce isk/hr would actually serve to make ganking less likely. Security and profit in an inverse relationship? Whoda -thunk?Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-80127240288739213652015-03-31T04:11:11.812-04:002015-03-31T04:11:11.812-04:00Unlike most 'carebears' (I would still lum...Unlike most 'carebears' (I would still lump myself into that group, I guess, even though I do some PvP) I don't want CCP stepping in, in some arbitrary heavy-handed manner, to 'protect' hisec by nerfing PvP'ers' game experience - that would (rightly so) piss them off and make hisec wayyyyy too bland even for me ;) I think that both CCP and the game's players need to find some way of encouraging mutually enjoyable PVP where desired, but WITHOUT making it the completely (for the most part) one-sided affair it currently is when you get roving bands of pilots suicide-ganking PVE'ers in hisec. Maybe some way of encouraging more people to move into low/null sec where I think most 'carebears' expect PVP to be found, while leaving those who do just want to sit and mine and manufacture in hisec alone... for the most part (can't let things be TOO uneventful for them...). Maybe that's not a possible option, but if there's one thing this game's community is good at, it's finding new and creative ways of playing in this sandbox. Yes, the game should have risks, but it also needs to reward ALL types of players and playstyles... I think a lot of the "carebear tears and rage" comes from feeling like they are the 90 pound kid with glasses at school getting beaten up by the 150 pound school bullies every time they venture out onto the playground at break... After a while you just don't bother. Maybe part of the problem here is just a basic misunderstanding by prospective or new players of the dynamics of this game - I don't know. As for DireNecessity's point - I DON'T want CCP removing the opportunity for players like me to gank the gankers lol - I just wish that the game had more options for players in groups like CODE so that they didn't log on every evening and feel that the best way of spending their time was by clubbing baby seals.... :) OK, they make a lot of money at it - but even so, it's got to be boring as hell just sitting on gates for hours at a time waiting for the opportunity to kill some careless or AFK freighter pilot - lots of money, sure - but where's the excitement, the challenge of actual, PROPER PvP? The kind of PvP that Tal wants in the game (judging by his blog)... They actually would seem, from Tal's argument, to be part of the problem - they make lots of ISK but with little risk and very little cost. To quote Tal: "The point of PvP is to fight against another human brain. Without that, the accomplishment means nothing." And another one: "So, on the individual level, it looks like PvP and player-caused loss is the only real threat to a perpetual accrual of wealth. At least to me. And my issue is only with players who want to reduce that threat to zero." Well to my mind, by picking on freighters, CODE players and their ilk are trying to reduce their threat/losses to an absolute minimum while maximising their returns - you sacrfice a few million ISK to make BILLIONS in an easy kill by seal-clubbing.<br /><br />Just my two cents :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-50309654074775327492015-03-30T19:22:39.870-04:002015-03-30T19:22:39.870-04:00If I may gadfly in . . .
Quoting anonymous, “[‘Ex...If I may gadfly in . . .<br /><br />Quoting anonymous, “[‘Executing’ is} NOT even REMOTELY what PVP should be about - and it's something that needs addressing.” I assume by ‘addressing’ you mean addressing by CCP – perhaps a change to the EULA and/or game mechanics. Oddly however, you follow this up with a delightful story about a 45 minute tangle with CODE. over an AFK freighter. Why, for the love of all things space holy, would you desire CCP remove the possibility of such wonderful emergent content busting out?<br />DireNecessitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-57548935123356526552015-03-30T12:26:04.462-04:002015-03-30T12:26:04.462-04:00This is probably my biggest complaint about CODE a...This is probably my biggest complaint about CODE and MiniLuv - not just that they are, effectively, bullies but that like most bullies they will only beat up on folks who can't - by their very nature - defend themselves. They are like a pack of hyenas circling a baby wildebeast - they are the lowest form of PVP'ers in the game. Unfortunately, their tactics, while reprehensible (at least to me) are also VERY profitable, due to the carelessness - stupidity even - of the people they prey on. Case in point: the other night I was in an anti-gank squad. We spent the better part of 45 mins trying to save a hauler in Madimilire. CODE got him - eventually (we killed the first fleet of catas they sent in - the second one was t2 fitted and ammoed and they blitzed him before we could kill them all) but it looks like he was AFK the ENTIRE time... Things like that really irritate me lol....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-40230674640778099042015-03-30T11:44:21.101-04:002015-03-30T11:44:21.101-04:00I absolutely agree. I don't think executing h...I absolutely agree. I don't think executing hapless victims is very satisfying, and I'd always rather fight someone who shoots back. The point of PvP is to fight against another human brain. Without that, the accomplishment means nothing.<br /><br />Knights weren't bad-ass when they slaughtered peasants... they were bad-ass when they fought one-on-one and defeated another knight.<br /><br />But, all that said, it's undeniable that in lean times (few targets you can find), killing a ratter or miner tides you over. It's unfortunate, but true. Improve the PvP landscape and you'll see fewer ganks.Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-23423775572357561652015-03-30T11:41:19.577-04:002015-03-30T11:41:19.577-04:00I wouldn't say my opinion is based on a view o...I wouldn't say my opinion is based on a view of how PvErs think, but rather as a consequence of individual isk sinks and faucets.<br /><br />I don't deem purchasing a ship to be an isk sink, for instance, since you can sell it later, usually for a profit (inflation means prices are generally going up, particularly for mission-running ships). Nor do I consider purchasing faction equipment for LP to be an isk sink, since I'm looking at the individual level... that faction equipment earns a pretty penny.<br /><br />As I see it, the only individual isk sinks in the game are ammo usage, repair bills, bad market deals, and ship destruction. The first is expended as isk is brought in, so that's just a lessening of the mission/mining faucet (if you don't have it going in, you don't spend it on ammo). The second and fourth are threats that some PvErs would like to do away with (preventing non-consensual PvP), and the third one is usually don't when you already have oodles of disposable isk, and is entirely within your control (just don't market trade).<br /><br />So, on the individual level, it looks like PvP and player-caused loss is the only real threat to a perpetual accrual of wealth. At least to me. And my issue is only with players who want to reduce that threat to zero.Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-45370155961124526552015-03-30T11:41:15.027-04:002015-03-30T11:41:15.027-04:00Oh, one more point - as you stated, at least some ...Oh, one more point - as you stated, at least some PVP these days involves gangs literally 'executing' ( your word) some poor PVE sod they come across. To my mind that's NOT even REMOTELY what PVP should be about - and it's something that needs addressing. Hopefully the incoming sov changes will give gangs something more constructive to do than simply fly around vaporising the occasional miner in all of 2 seconds...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-70011593916755442172015-03-30T11:28:33.068-04:002015-03-30T11:28:33.068-04:00I think part of the problem here (possibly) is tha...I think part of the problem here (possibly) is that you 'seem' to think that all PVE'ers are some kind of Scrooge McDuck (hehe that reference may be lost on you depending on your age), piling up ISK for the sake of it, never spending or investing it - but most aren't like Smaug, going to bed at night in a huge pile of ISK and PLEX while dreaming of ways to make the pile even bigger :) I mainly PVE - and I'm into Industry, Manufacturing and PI. I make ISK and I spend and invest it (sometimes not too wisely lol) BUT I also buy ships and equip them and go ratting and missioning and take part in the occasional fleet anti-ganker patrol - I even give ISK away to other players to help them out. Sure, PVP probably costs more (depending on your luck and skill) but it's not like PVE is cost-free and all PVE'ers are sitting on mountains of cash chortling away at 'poor' PVP'ers and their expensive combat hobby ;) You can still do combat (and combat can still hurt you) but in a more - I guess 'structured'? - way where you can, to some extent, control your risk. Though even there, you can still get gankers camping known missioning sites ready to jump the PVE mission runners when they warp in.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-44190756357562623032015-03-30T10:59:47.931-04:002015-03-30T10:59:47.931-04:00You make two points, and both deserve consideratio...You make two points, and both deserve consideration. I do think PvPers have become more desperate of late. Roaming gangs are finding it harder to find targets - for a variety of reasons - and this frustration comes out as overzealousness when they DO find a target. The frustrations of not finding targets build up, and the excitement of actually finding one is a lot more than it would be if you were getting your dopamine rush regularly.<br /><br />I'm sad to say that even I've experienced delight in being part of a gang of 10-12 that finds a mining barge in low-sec and kills it. Even though I know it was an execution, not a fight. Sure, I'd much rather fight against a comparable gang and win, but I'll take a hapless guy with the bad luck to be caught. Otherwise, we might not come across anything else all night.<br /><br />To your other point about CODE in particular and PvErs losing ships in general... what is the purpose of collecting all that isk from faucets without the occasional gank to purge it? I admit to not understanding the desire to just accrue and accrue isk with nothing to spend it on. And without the risk of loss, there is no equilibrium to fight against.<br /><br />For instance, as a PvPer, I'm constantly losing ships. You start losing T1s, then you go to losing T2s, then T3s, then capitals. Plus, you tend to PLEX your account. Just to do my business, my net isk sink is about 1.2 billion per month... and that's after SRP reimbursements. When I had to plex two accounts and pay for all my ship losses, it was at about 2.5 bil per month. So any ratting, trading, or character selling I did was meant to offset those losses. I needed income to offset my expenditure, and PvE had a pragmatic "purpose".<br /><br />Now, I grant you, I'm heavily influenced by the "PvE is a chore" thinking that a LOT of people don't share. But my general point is that without suffering regular losses, you accrue isk only once... your balance goes up and up without let, and once you've got it, you've got it. Then what? But if you add loss into it, your actions have meaning again... you lose a ship and have to work to earn it back. You have an incentive to continue to grow in case of a future possibility of multiple bad-luck ganks in a row.<br /><br />I have 54 bil in liquid isk so I can replace all of my ships if something awful would happen and I'd lose everything (like a deadzoning of a staging station, for instance). I wouldn't have ratted to earn that isk if the risk of losing everything didn't exist.Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-20426349658249728152015-03-30T10:47:18.474-04:002015-03-30T10:47:18.474-04:00I've been playing EVE on and off since the clo...I've been playing EVE on and off since the closed beta and there's one thing I've noticed over the years - and that is that the PVP element seems to have gotten 'nastier'. What do I mean by that? Well, back in the day you'd have roving gangs hunting people, but there would be a degree of civility to it - if they got you webbed and scrammed they'd burn you down to structure and then some groups would at least offer you the choice of paying a 'ransom' for your ship or they'd blow you up - and more often than not, they'd actually honour that (if players got a bad rep for doing otherwise, folks would stop paying - it was a smaller community back then). These days those same gangs (or individuals) warp in, blow your ship up and pod kill befdore flying off (at best) or will rip you in local for being a 'noob', acting like some violent teenage yobbo off his Ritalin. Is it any wonder that for most PVE style players their experiences of PVP are so negative? They see PVP'ers as psychotic yobs that like terrorising and/or smack-talking them, while at least some of the PVP crowd see PVE'ers as sheep to be slaughtered for being 'weak'. BOTH attitudes do the game no good and widen the gulf between the two camps. Case in point: the activities of CODE and MiniLuv in hisec may be amusing (and profitable) to their members, but for the PVE'ers they gank it's anything BUT a laughing matter - and I would guess makes people LESS inclined to try PVP, not more.<br /><br />Part of the problem (certainly with the case above) is that most people that play PVE are WOEFULLY under-equipped and inexperienced to handle PVP - as someone stated above the advantage and momentum in combat is with the (PVP) aggressor. Corps like EVE University and their ilk can help PVE players with this. Get trained up then go back to mining veld if that's what you want to do - but at least you've got SOME idea how to equip your ship and defend yourself - while also getting a taste possibly for a little PVP on the side to liven things up between those long hours of mining ;)<br /><br />One final point: CODE has been making a big deal about CCP's research into ganking and it's effect on player retention. CCP's conclusion (MUCH to CODE's delight I might add) is that players who get killed are MORE likely to subscribe. The point I'd like to make is that CCP only looked at players on their initial 2 weeks of experience in-game. Now speaking from personal experience - if I lose a ship in the first few days of play, I'm not going to be too bothered - the ship is (comparatively) cheap and insurance (if I bother with it) will cover a good chunk of the costs. NOW - go tell that to some solo PVE'er who has managed to save up for his first mining barge. Being a PVE'er he is unprepared for combat, he has sunk most of his cash into his shiny new Hulk - and then some ganker comes along and blows him away for shits and giggles (for 'the tears'). All that effort down the toilet - insurance (if he bothered with it because the cost goes WAYYY up with ship size/tiers) covers a FRACTION of the total ship cost so he basically has to start from scratch.... I wonder what the player retention rate is for someone in THAT position? I know I've rage-quit on a couple of occasions over the years out of frustration...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-76932324017839611652015-03-30T03:13:14.539-04:002015-03-30T03:13:14.539-04:00Sure, PVE could be removed from the game but the g...Sure, PVE could be removed from the game but the game would be less interesting.<br /><br />PVP could be removed as well though, just replace pvp-ers with NPC's if you insist. You argue those NPC's wouldn't be as good as real PVP and you are right, but if our goal is a PVE game then nobody is expecting an AI that could pass a turing test. <br />This PVE EVE would be a more boring game as the EVE we have now as well. Raziel Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02545370350482232205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-72156635848441898682015-03-29T22:29:39.865-04:002015-03-29T22:29:39.865-04:00Great points, my Heretic friend!Great points, my Heretic friend!Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-44759832400838630472015-03-29T22:28:55.944-04:002015-03-29T22:28:55.944-04:00And I share your desire for people to be out in sp...And I share your desire for people to be out in space. PvE coupled with an attitude of, "Oh, well, I got popped... but it's still worth it!" is what I'd aim for. I don't hold to those who want PvE to be safe, or are offended when others "interfere" in their game, though.Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-18582372250775363552015-03-29T22:27:45.097-04:002015-03-29T22:27:45.097-04:00Fair point!Fair point!Talvorian Dexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349917611382684205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-89083444346441539782015-03-29T22:14:17.149-04:002015-03-29T22:14:17.149-04:00It's very interesting, the view that PVP has b...It's very interesting, the view that PVP has been buffeted by the forces of chaos and is now endangered. I haven't done much PVP in the 3 years I've been playing the game (mostly because until recently I hadn't encountered a group that wouldn't mock mistakes or inexperience), but in all that time, it's been my opinion that PVP was being given too much focus, that hardly anything was being attended to in terms of giving defenders a chance.<br /><br />For every point you raise that PVP was being nerfed, I can come up with one to prove the opposite. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.<br /><br />But it's not is EVE a PVP game, does PVE in EVE matter, is it okay for EVE players to not go out looking for PVP that's the real issue. Jonathan got it right with the last paragraph in his post:<br /><br />"But maybe we can ease off the missionary work a little bit. And that's the lesson I took from Sugar's post. Something I am definitely guilty of myself. Maybe we can all make an effort to respect other people's style while we blow them up."<br /><br />That's the real issue.<br /><br />I've also noticed, Tal, that you seem to be falling victim to the same thinking I've noticed in almost all the pure pvpers when it comes to pvers complaining, and that is to paint all of them with the brush that says all PVEers should be safe all the time. That just simply isn't true, except for a vocal minority, but it seems to colour almost all the arguments I've ever seen on this issue.<br /><br />And just to show that I'm not picking on you or all the other pure pvpers out there, I've seen and heard a lot of the same sentiment expressed by miners and industrialists against the knuckle-dragging, mindless pvp thugs :) And it's just as wrong when they do it.Heretic Caldarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015635188565858672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-86729042193470785772015-03-29T22:02:21.082-04:002015-03-29T22:02:21.082-04:00To hop onto one part of Tal's argument here......To hop onto one part of Tal's argument here... for feeling under siege... working on PvE has two important aspects for me. For one, it feeds people's ability to PvP. That is something I have watched people struggle with and one of my major motivators in improving low sec income.<br /><br />Secondly, it creates reason for people to be out in space. No matter how beautiful and elegant PvP is, it requires targets. Those targets have a need to be where they are for there are only so many people who will have only but the purest of PvP goals in their game play.<br /><br />A healthier environment is a healthier environment for everyone.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-71751966932015234382015-03-29T21:57:09.649-04:002015-03-29T21:57:09.649-04:00You touched on something I'm sensitive about a...You touched on something I'm sensitive about as well. No worries. I've never believed that people have to agree with each other to respect the differences. And how do we learn if everyone reflects the same thing at us every time?<br /><br />I want people to play Eve in a way that keeps them coming back and being a part of the game world. I want PvE to be worth doing, or industry, <i>or</i> PvP in whatever amounts they want as so many, many people dabble upon doing.<br /><br />I think when we have content that is cast aside as worthless that content needs to be fixed, not ignored or scraped aside more.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4159840807393856856.post-35386783313344923612015-03-29T21:11:18.264-04:002015-03-29T21:11:18.264-04:00That's an interesting point that I admit I had...That's an interesting point that I admit I hadn't thought about. Maybe it's because I really haven't been playing long enough to see those changes first hand. But I get what you're saying, and I do agree that taking Eve into a direction that makes it safer is a bad idea.<br /><br />So thank you for speaking on behalf of us PvPers, I do agree it's important that people like you think about it, write about it and discuss it. That, I believe, is the only way to improve the game we love.Jonathan Atruinhttps://zkillboard.com/character/94956225/noreply@blogger.com